Fwd: Does our Pager actually make sense? ( was Re: Problems again withRSF templates for paging controls and more )
Daphne Ogle
daphne at media.berkeley.edu
Mon Dec 17 20:50:48 UTC 2007
>>
>> Daphne Ogle wrote:
>>> Anyone have the time and inclination to draw up some paging
>>> options? Sounds like Steve is willing to put some development
>>> time into this.
>>>
>> I would love to do this. Is there an existing wiki page somewhere
>> where I should dump this information?
>>
>> -Steve
Hey Steve,
Sorry for not responding earlier. Somehow I missed your response.
I've created a page in the Fluid wiki (we already had it listed as a
future component just needed some fleshing out), http://
wiki.fluidproject.org/x/hRQa. I tried to capture some of this email
conversation plus various other conversations about the same issue.
I also added links to existing design patterns and some of the
applications being discussed as benchmarks.
-Daphne
>>> -Daphne
>>>
>>> On Dec 11, 2007, at 5:33 AM, John Norman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think usability _requires_ the paging control to be at
>>>> the bottom of the page. My personal webmail page has it at the
>>>> top and bottom in quite a usable way using the technique Steve
>>>> is suggesting. [image attached]
>>>> [see attachment: "tabbing.tiff", size: 124082 bytes]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Notice they put a drop down in the middle to give the number of
>>>> results on the page
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On 11 Dec 2007, at 09:53, swg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sean Keesler wrote:
>>>>>> While doing a recent UX walkthrough of the OSP matrix tool I
>>>>>> annotated that
>>>>>> the pager takes up significant screen real estate at the top
>>>>>> of the screen,
>>>>>> forcing the data below below the fold. Reading this post
>>>>>> reminded me that
>>>>>> this is not just an OSP UI enhancement, but that it was a
>>>>>> complaint about
>>>>>> all of the paged lists I have seen in Sakai. Does the RSF
>>>>>> pager look the
>>>>>> same as the other pagers I have seen?
>>>>>>
>>>>> That was my original intention yes, to make it have the 4
>>>>> buttons and the drop down thing, etc. like the original sakai
>>>>> pages. But after spending a good portion of a day (this was a
>>>>> few months ago) trying to find a website that didn't page by
>>>>> just using 5 or 6 hyperlinks composed of a few arrows and
>>>>> numbers, I started to wonder if it really made sense.
>>>>> There's also the chance that I'm just being extremely lazy, and
>>>>> it's easier for me to render a couple hyperlinks than to either
>>>>> wrap buttons in a GET form and/or write a bunch of javascript.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> ( I still haven't seen another pager on the internet that looks
>>>>> like ours. There's a good chance I'm not looking hard enough ).
>>>>>
>>>>>> If the pager is going to be at the top of tables of data, I
>>>>>> wondered if it
>>>>>> should even be displayed if there is only one page (<= 10) of
>>>>>> results. For
>>>>>> example, the matrix tool is highly unlikely to have 10
>>>>>> matrices deployed in
>>>>>> a worksite. In that case you still have data forced down
>>>>>> several rows even
>>>>>> though the pager is useless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose that if it is at the bottom, the same argument
>>>>>> (uselessness) could
>>>>>> be made, although it wouldn't have the same impact on the UI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> Sean Keesler
>>>>>> The Living SchoolBook
>>>>>> 030 Huntington Hall
>>>>>> Syracuse University
>>>>>> 315-443-4768
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/11/07 3:41 AM, "Ian Boston" <ieb at tfd.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pagers should use GET s and not javascript, they are views.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> APIs must support paging and sorting, if sorting is required.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yahoo design patterns on pagers are worth a read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>> Sent from my Pearl, sorry about the briefness and spelling!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: swg <sgithens at caret.cam.ac.uk>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:17:02
>>>>>>> To:Sakai UI UI <sakai-dg-ui at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>>>>>>> Cc:sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Does our Pager actually make sense? ( was Re:
>>>>>>> Problems again with
>>>>>>> RSF templates for paging controls and more )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello UI (and CC'd source part) Developers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've had some ongoing quandary's about our pager, and they have
>>>>>>> resurfaced as I've been reminded that I never quite finished
>>>>>>> debugging
>>>>>>> the javascript and config options for the rsf version of the
>>>>>>> Sakai Pager.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mostly, I'm wondering if the sakai pager really makes sense?
>>>>>>> I realize
>>>>>>> that we're supposed to keep using it so the Sakai user
>>>>>>> interface is
>>>>>>> 'consistent', but I'm hard pressed to find another pager on
>>>>>>> any other
>>>>>>> web page that looks like ours. Maybe I'm just being
>>>>>>> overcritical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like, most web sites have some links in plain text with some
>>>>>>> arrows and
>>>>>>> a couple numbers:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 _2_ 3 >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or maybe something more complicated,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> << < 1 _2_ 3 ... > >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ours has a bunch of buttons. And no way to just skip forward
>>>>>>> a couple
>>>>>>> pages. I'm assuming it's like this because in the past we've
>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>> exclusively loaded the entire table into memory and the pager
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> buttons because it required submission from a <form/> of some
>>>>>>> sort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been trying to return to a simpler more RESTful time,
>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>> PHP'ish, where paging means submitting a GET url, and you do
>>>>>>> a fast SQL
>>>>>>> query with the LIMIT BY and SORT BY options. It's really
>>>>>>> weird doing
>>>>>>> that with our current pager widget because it forces you to use
>>>>>>> Javascript to power the buttons to do the GET request.
>>>>>>> Unless you
>>>>>>> resort to really complicated GET <forms>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you think we ever might give some thought to a pager that
>>>>>>> uses simple
>>>>>>> links like other websites?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a related tangent, does anyone know of a UI Design Study or
>>>>>>> whitepaper that gives super detailed behavior expectations from
>>>>>>> sorted/searched/paged tables?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've always wondered about things like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I go to the 3rd page of a paged table and choose to sort by a
>>>>>>> different column, should I stay on the 3rd page of the newly
>>>>>>> sorted
>>>>>>> table, or should I go back to the first page? What if I'm
>>>>>>> just clicking
>>>>>>> to sort on the same column in the other direction. What if
>>>>>>> it's a
>>>>>>> weighted sort on one of the other columns? What if you enter
>>>>>>> a search
>>>>>>> term?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would guess that if you change any of the options you
>>>>>>> should probably
>>>>>>> go back to the first page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attachments:
>>>>
>>>> tabbing.tiff
>>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/
>>>> e51807d5-edf5-4ee1-8008-cefdfb874a74/tabbing.tiff
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------
>>>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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>>>> Development (a.k.a. sakai-dev) site.
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>>>
>>> Daphne Ogle
>>> Senior Interaction Designer
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> Educational Technology Services
>>> daphne at media.berkeley.edu
>>> cell (510)847-0308
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [see attachment: "message0.html", size: 28213 bytes]
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> message0.html
>>> https://collab.sakaiproject.org/access/content/attachment/
>>> 977112fe-d7ee-4b51-000e-cac48bfd2f3a/message0.html
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> This automatic notification message was sent by Sakai Collab
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Michelle D'Souza
> Software Developer, Fluid Project
> Adaptive Technology Resource Centre
> University of Toronto
>
>
>
Daphne Ogle
Senior Interaction Designer
University of California, Berkeley
Educational Technology Services
daphne at media.berkeley.edu
cell (510)847-0308
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